The only 'success' is winning it - everything else... well it depends.

I would say that losing to Switzerland would be very damning for Southgate and the team, particularly given what's gone before in this tournament.

A semi-final defeat would depend on the circumstances. Did we play well against Switzerland? Were we very unlucky against (presumably) Netherlands or Austria? Or did we scrape past the Swiss and gt schooled in the last four? Again, damning for southgate if it's the latter.

If we get to the final, one would have to presume that performances have improved - so from my point of view, being finalists again shifts the narrative back in Southgate's favour.

If we win it, everything will feel totally different to now and he'll be knighted.

But what if we get absolutely murdered by Spain? lose 5 or 6-0? Surely he gets pilloried then too?

Bottom line - it depends.

Posted By: norwaay on July 1st 2024 at 12:48:25

Message Thread

Given how the draw has panned out, what constitutes a successful tournament for England? (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:39:22
- The only 'success' is winning it - everything else... well it depends. (Other Football) - norwaay, Jul 1, 12:48:25
  - Indeed, and everything that's gone before will be forgotten if we start (Other Football) - jamesward, Jul 1, 13:02:39
    - And interestingly, there was a player revolt (Other Football) - norwaay, Jul 1, 13:08:25
      - Even then, the Cameroon and Belgium performances weren't amazing (Other Football) - jamesward, Jul 1, 13:15:24
  - Agree with all of that (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 12:59:08
- Also, stating that anything other than winning it is failure is silly... (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jul 1, 12:31:14
  - I didn't say that anything other than winning is failure (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 13:01:59
    - The run to the final doesn’t help you win the final (n/m) (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jul 1, 13:15:07
      - Who said it did? (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 13:18:30
- Semi final but I’d say QF is already par (n/m) (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jul 1, 12:26:10
  - There is no 'par'. (Other Football) - norwaay, Jul 1, 13:10:24
    - Well, given that until Southgate no England manager had ever taken us to (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jul 1, 13:35:09
      - I think norwaay said that losing to Switzerland would be a failure (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 13:39:52
  - You think Switzerland have a better squad than we do? (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 13:02:36
    - Football is not an algorithm. I don't think they have a better group of players, no, but (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jul 1, 13:21:05
      - I don't disagree that they are performing better so far (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 13:25:23
    - I think Akanji and Xhaka walk into our team (Other Football) - jamesward, Jul 1, 13:08:45
- Everyone in this thread so far seems to be overlooking (Other Football) - jamesward, Jul 1, 10:55:52
  - Objectively, our performances make us one of the weakest remaining teams (Other Football) - Under soil heating, Jul 1, 11:37:42
  - I've only actually watched the 6 mins added time after 90 mins last night (Other Football) - Captain Bligh, Jul 1, 11:32:40
  - That’s why the final would be a decent result durrrrrr (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jul 1, 11:32:07
  - Yes, but that's our problem (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:59:08
    - Not defending Southgate, but are our players as good as we think they are? (Other Football) - jamesward, Jul 1, 11:02:31
      - Looking at past England teams pre-Southgate, most players were MASSIVE footballing names (Other Football) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Jul 1, 11:13:03
        
        England players are oftern very good in teams where they are surrounded by (Other Football) - megson, Jul 1, 14:51:15
        
        Foden won PL POTS (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 11:32:52
      - In my opinion, yes they are (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 11:08:40
- Can't say I'm overly confident, not with Gareth in charge. (n/m) (Other Football) - DrDublin, Jul 1, 10:51:48
- I think Southgate is in win or bust territory now (Other Football) - 51eve, Jul 1, 10:50:55
  - He literally is given his next defeat will be the end of his England career (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:51:54
- Given the history of the game in this country ... (Other Football) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 1, 10:50:33
  - That should be the case without the friendly draws we've enjoyed (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:53:14
- Final (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jul 1, 10:48:22
- We'll never have a better chance to win a national tournament (n/m) (Other Football) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Jul 1, 10:40:30
  - As was the case in the last Euros and to a degree the World Cup (Other Football) - Jim, Jul 1, 10:46:38
    - Agree (n/m) (Other Football) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Jul 1, 11:05:44
    - There was no shame in losing to France at the WC (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:51:11
  - To be fair, we had one in 2021 (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jul 1, 10:46:11
    - It was said multiple times at every major tournament since 2018 (Other Football) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Jul 1, 11:05:08

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