We drew with them, tbf, and won on penalties. Objectively, it wasn't great

Even though in the end result is all that matters.

I don't disagree with what you've said, and if you read my other posts on this thread I think you'll see we're pretty well aligned.

My point here is just that 2018 wasn't an over achievement - losing to Colombia or Sweden, or not getting out of the group would have been an embarrassment, right up there with some of the worst failures we've had - and yes, there have been a few.

We were knocked out by the first decent team we played. As we have been in most world cups, this just happened to be in the semi final.

Like you, I think we've achieved on a pretty consistent basis under Southgate. Getting to the final in 2021, and taking it to pens, arguably was over achievement. Italy were better than us.

Posted By: SimonOTBC on June 14th 2024 at 12:21:27

Message Thread

Official Euro 2024 prediction thread (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:38:14
- Czech beat Portugal (Other Football) - dr fanta, Jun 14, 18:59:11
- Under 2 hours to go until entry closes (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 18:08:22
- England beat Germany (n/m) (Other Football) - CauldRon, Jun 14, 16:55:13
- Germany beat Spain (n/m) (Other Football) - Men without hats, Jun 14, 16:41:22
- Germany beat Italy (n/m) (Other Football) - littletinyphil, Jun 14, 13:40:19
- England beat France (Other Football) - Old Git, Jun 14, 13:06:14
  - I’m going to be in France for the final and it’s on Bastille day (Other Football) - Adster, Jun 14, 15:17:19
  - Hopefully via the 2nd place route (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 13:10:12
- Could it be another 💯👀 (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:48:02
  - If people keep getting England wrong, then yes. (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:48:38
    - Wagner made the play offs (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:49:44
      - 😆 (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:50:06
- A real lack of participants I must say (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:26:39
  - Stop trying to get to 100 every day (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 14:01:20
    - Can’t help being a content creator (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 14:14:40
  - Unsurprisingly, it's turned into 'Southgate out' (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:28:43
    - You do actually remember him freezing in the Italy final though? (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 14:28:05
    - hi Gareth (n/m) (Other Football) - Bristol Graham, Jun 14, 12:47:39
      - It's like covid denial. (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:48:10
    - Needs a qualitative study of the opposition (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:35:12
      - Fill yer boots (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:43:32
      - Europe and the world (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:37:07
    - Cracking stat (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:29:55
- This made me laugh. (Other Football) - The Gaffer, Jun 14, 10:54:29
  - lolf! (n/m) (Other Football) - Jumbo1, Jun 14, 11:12:35
- Here it is, the guy who predicted Leicester and Ipswich 1&2: (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 10:25:16
  - Shit, please tell me it wasn't on penalties again? (n/m) (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:27:58
    - I can’t divulge (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 11:37:42
  - No point watching now (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:27:14
    - You should have kept it from him (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 11:37:26
      - He'll get over it, he's 23 (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:42:43
- France beat England in final (n/m) (Other Football) - Tony Martin, Jun 14, 10:10:17
  - nailed on (n/m) (Other Football) - shoddy, Jun 14, 11:53:51
- Germany beat France (n/m) (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 08:57:39
  - ................. (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 08:58:09
    - Wouldn't surprise me if most people copied that off Nick Hancock (n/m) (Other Football) - Lentil Weaver, Jun 14, 09:55:17
- England beat England (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 08:50:43
  - Rolf. (n/m) (Other Football) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Jun 14, 09:29:27
  - Southgate beats natural talent (n/m) (Other Football) - MonkeyPuzzle, Jun 14, 09:02:10
    - What an awful lot of tosh this is. (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:20:05
      - hi Gareth (n/m) (Other Football) - Bristol Graham, Jun 14, 11:29:11
      - I agree that MonkeyPuzzle is being overly harsh (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:00:01
        
        We had quite kind runs in both tournaments where we reached the semis and final (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:06:35
        
        Yes, I'm not doing him down. I think he's achieved a lot (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:07:31
      - I'd say Foden is in the same bracket as Bellingham (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:36:34
        
        He's a classic example of "talent". He does it for Man City but have you ever seen him (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:43:42
        
        I don't think Bellingham has justified the hype for England tbh (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:55:50
        
        Now, in the CL final I think it was the manager's fault (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 11:01:02
        
        To add to that though.... (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:53:12
        
        Southgate does have a role in that though (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 10:53:04
        
        Yes. So in that respect.... (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:58:20
        
        ^^^ This. He took a squad where his best midfield option off the bench was Eric Dier (Other Football) - megson, Jun 14, 11:24:01
        
        Yep (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:30:34
        
        Both defeats to Belgium were meaningless (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 11:54:28
        
        Fair enough. But not sure it changes anything (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:58:43
        
        We beat Colombia (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:10:03
        
        We drew with them, tbf, and won on penalties. Objectively, it wasn't great (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:21:27
        
        It's fair to say we were very unlucky against top opponents in (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:14:30
        
        We were unlucky (very?) against Germany twice (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:23:11
        
        Is that really evidence of a transformation in tournament football though? (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:36:13
        
        And....the only KO round of the Euros was a Final until 1984 when semis were introduced (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:43:49
        
        Ok then (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:47:19
        
        In fact the only Euros which didn't have semi-finals was 1980. (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:49:48
        
        Ah, fair enough. I didn't go back any further than that (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:51:41
        
        To be honest (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:52:53
        
        Yes, it is incredibly strong evidence (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:42:44
        
        I suppose so (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:49:31
        
        My fundamental issue with the Southgate narrative (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:52:11
        
        Karen Carney wrote just that in the Guardian Euros preview (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 15:47:38
        
        I'm not in that camp (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:56:27
        
        At least we actually beat major nations now though (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 13:04:41
        
        Yeah, Germany in the knoockouts is the only time i can remember beating a major nation (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 13:18:56
        
        Good question (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 14:40:31
        
        Unlucky v the Argies with Beckham’s daft red (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:32:39
        
        In that case we were very much not unlucky (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:37:20
        
        Has southgate won the group in all 3 tournaments? (n/m) (Other Football) - megson, Jun 14, 14:33:10
        
        Won the group at the last two tournaments (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 14:44:08
        
        (Sorry... 24 between 1968 and 2016) (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:25:20
        
        Yes, I can't really comment on that as I'm not really a Southgate critic (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:03:19
    - Second rate defence with no natural left back (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:21:41
      - I haven't been paying attention - is Shaw not fit to start? (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 09:27:35
        
        No (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:32:08
        
        This is not ideal (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:17:53
        
        I think semi-finals is our ceiling (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 10:55:02
        
        fuckoffselwyns - we will shit them all! (n/m) (Other Football) - Jumbo1, Jun 14, 11:13:25
        
        Yep (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:07:07
- France beat Portugal (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 08:42:03
  - Can’t believe how shit the fixture lists have been (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:58:06
    - This is good - but you may well need a free trial (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:20:42
      - Yes that’s what I eventually worked out (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 09:28:37
- France beat Germany (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:38:36

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