What an awful lot of tosh this is.

Every single generation we fall for the media labelling England players as world class, and therefore each time we fail to win a tournament, we have to blame the manager.

We have two genuinely world class players in Kane and Bellingham. Saka is close behind. The rest is all about "talent" which the media will continue banging on about until they're 30 and fallen off a cliff. Crucially for a tournament, the quality has always been thin in depth.
.
We did brilliantly at the last Euros, overachieving in my opinion.We certainly overachieved at the 2018 World Cup.

Southgate has a win percentage on a par with Alf Ramsey (only Capello was significantly better - do we want him back?). Southgate has so far (I hope I am not talking this up) not only qualified for every major tournament but has managed to take the team to the quarter final every single time, and reached the semi final stage two out of the three so far. He is the only manager other than Ramsey to make a final, and the one area he absolutely loses out on is that he didn't win it.

The perception of England from some people seems to be that our players are so good that the only thing holding them back is Gareth Southgate, and that with this level of talent his record should not be compared with the greats. That's bizarre. Is the current squad really better in quality than Ramsey's in the 60s / 70s? Is it that much stronger than the so called Golden Generation ?

I think Gareth should get all the credit he deserves as the best England manager since Ramsey and, should he win in an increasingly competitive landscape, he would surpass him.

Posted By: Legacy Fan on June 14th 2024 at 10:20:05

Message Thread

Official Euro 2024 prediction thread (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:38:14
- Czech beat Portugal (Other Football) - dr fanta, Jun 14, 18:59:11
- Under 2 hours to go until entry closes (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 18:08:22
- England beat Germany (n/m) (Other Football) - CauldRon, Jun 14, 16:55:13
- Germany beat Spain (n/m) (Other Football) - Men without hats, Jun 14, 16:41:22
- Germany beat Italy (n/m) (Other Football) - littletinyphil, Jun 14, 13:40:19
- England beat France (Other Football) - Old Git, Jun 14, 13:06:14
  - I’m going to be in France for the final and it’s on Bastille day (Other Football) - Adster, Jun 14, 15:17:19
  - Hopefully via the 2nd place route (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 13:10:12
- Could it be another 💯👀 (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:48:02
  - If people keep getting England wrong, then yes. (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:48:38
    - Wagner made the play offs (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:49:44
      - 😆 (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:50:06
- A real lack of participants I must say (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:26:39
  - Stop trying to get to 100 every day (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 14:01:20
    - Can’t help being a content creator (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 14:14:40
  - Unsurprisingly, it's turned into 'Southgate out' (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:28:43
    - You do actually remember him freezing in the Italy final though? (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 14:28:05
    - hi Gareth (n/m) (Other Football) - Bristol Graham, Jun 14, 12:47:39
      - It's like covid denial. (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:48:10
    - Needs a qualitative study of the opposition (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:35:12
      - Fill yer boots (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:43:32
      - Europe and the world (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:37:07
    - Cracking stat (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 12:29:55
- This made me laugh. (Other Football) - The Gaffer, Jun 14, 10:54:29
  - lolf! (n/m) (Other Football) - Jumbo1, Jun 14, 11:12:35
- Here it is, the guy who predicted Leicester and Ipswich 1&2: (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 10:25:16
  - Shit, please tell me it wasn't on penalties again? (n/m) (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:27:58
    - I can’t divulge (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 11:37:42
  - No point watching now (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:27:14
    - You should have kept it from him (n/m) (Other Football) - Charles21, Jun 14, 11:37:26
      - He'll get over it, he's 23 (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:42:43
- France beat England in final (n/m) (Other Football) - Tony Martin, Jun 14, 10:10:17
  - nailed on (n/m) (Other Football) - shoddy, Jun 14, 11:53:51
- Germany beat France (n/m) (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 08:57:39
  - ................. (Other Football) - Bertie Russell, Jun 14, 08:58:09
    - Wouldn't surprise me if most people copied that off Nick Hancock (n/m) (Other Football) - Lentil Weaver, Jun 14, 09:55:17
- England beat England (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 08:50:43
  - Rolf. (n/m) (Other Football) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Jun 14, 09:29:27
  - Southgate beats natural talent (n/m) (Other Football) - MonkeyPuzzle, Jun 14, 09:02:10
    - What an awful lot of tosh this is. (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:20:05
      - hi Gareth (n/m) (Other Football) - Bristol Graham, Jun 14, 11:29:11
      - I agree that MonkeyPuzzle is being overly harsh (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:00:01
        
        We had quite kind runs in both tournaments where we reached the semis and final (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:06:35
        
        Yes, I'm not doing him down. I think he's achieved a lot (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:07:31
      - I'd say Foden is in the same bracket as Bellingham (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:36:34
        
        He's a classic example of "talent". He does it for Man City but have you ever seen him (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:43:42
        
        I don't think Bellingham has justified the hype for England tbh (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:55:50
        
        Now, in the CL final I think it was the manager's fault (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 11:01:02
        
        To add to that though.... (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:53:12
        
        Southgate does have a role in that though (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 10:53:04
        
        Yes. So in that respect.... (Other Football) - Legacy Fan, Jun 14, 10:58:20
        
        ^^^ This. He took a squad where his best midfield option off the bench was Eric Dier (Other Football) - megson, Jun 14, 11:24:01
        
        Yep (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:30:34
        
        Both defeats to Belgium were meaningless (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 11:54:28
        
        Fair enough. But not sure it changes anything (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:58:43
        
        We beat Colombia (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:10:03
        
        We drew with them, tbf, and won on penalties. Objectively, it wasn't great (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:21:27
        
        It's fair to say we were very unlucky against top opponents in (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:14:30
        
        We were unlucky (very?) against Germany twice (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:23:11
        
        Is that really evidence of a transformation in tournament football though? (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:36:13
        
        And....the only KO round of the Euros was a Final until 1984 when semis were introduced (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:43:49
        
        Ok then (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:47:19
        
        In fact the only Euros which didn't have semi-finals was 1980. (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:49:48
        
        Ah, fair enough. I didn't go back any further than that (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:51:41
        
        To be honest (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:52:53
        
        Yes, it is incredibly strong evidence (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:42:44
        
        I suppose so (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:49:31
        
        My fundamental issue with the Southgate narrative (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:52:11
        
        Karen Carney wrote just that in the Guardian Euros preview (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 15:47:38
        
        I'm not in that camp (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 12:56:27
        
        At least we actually beat major nations now though (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 13:04:41
        
        Yeah, Germany in the knoockouts is the only time i can remember beating a major nation (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 13:18:56
        
        Good question (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 14:40:31
        
        Unlucky v the Argies with Beckham’s daft red (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 12:32:39
        
        In that case we were very much not unlucky (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:37:20
        
        Has southgate won the group in all 3 tournaments? (n/m) (Other Football) - megson, Jun 14, 14:33:10
        
        Won the group at the last two tournaments (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 14:44:08
        
        (Sorry... 24 between 1968 and 2016) (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 12:25:20
        
        Yes, I can't really comment on that as I'm not really a Southgate critic (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, Jun 14, 11:03:19
    - Second rate defence with no natural left back (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:21:41
      - I haven't been paying attention - is Shaw not fit to start? (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 09:27:35
        
        No (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:32:08
        
        This is not ideal (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 10:17:53
        
        I think semi-finals is our ceiling (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 10:55:02
        
        fuckoffselwyns - we will shit them all! (n/m) (Other Football) - Jumbo1, Jun 14, 11:13:25
        
        Yep (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, Jun 14, 11:07:07
- France beat Portugal (n/m) (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 08:42:03
  - Can’t believe how shit the fixture lists have been (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:58:06
    - This is good - but you may well need a free trial (Other Football) - norwaay, Jun 14, 09:20:42
      - Yes that’s what I eventually worked out (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 09:28:37
- France beat Germany (n/m) (Other Football) - SCC 28, Jun 14, 08:38:36

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