because no-one has really set out what vision of Britain they want
we either have a vision where we are close partners with Europe economically, socially and politically, in which case the WA is fine and the least-worse option (but query the point of it all).
Or we have a vision where we are this independent low-tax low-tariff mercantile nation forging our own path in the world, in which case the WA is an absolute disaster as we are tied to the EU and can't do all those wonderful trade deals. But there is a cost to this strategy in that this inevitably leads to concessions on standards and will require a complete re-jig of our economy as we wipe out vast swathes of jobs (in agriculture & manufacturing especially). It would require a rapid upskilling of our labour force and a recognition that some segments of society and regions of the UK are simply going to be left by the wayside and living standards for some will fall.
Neither option is a bad one for UK Plc long-term (and indeed I can see the advantages of the second approach *if* we did it properly) but there is clearly a lot of short to medium term pain involved in the second option that will not be personally felt by the leading proponents of that option.
Of course the other alternative we could play with would be to accept NI as a separately governed part of the UK that can remain aligned with the EU, with the border down the Irish Sea. That's a *big* political decision though as it probably leads to a break up of the UK as we know it. Would be fantastic for NI regeneration though.
Posted By: CWC on September 4th 2019 at 11:53:30
Message Thread
- Think I may consider voting lib dem for the first time ever (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:27:37
- main parties don't usually oppose speaker (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 10:11:56
- I’m the same (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:47:33
- I will absolutely vote Labour (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Sep 4, 18:53:10
- But the Lib Dems want a 2nd referendum (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:50:24
- May as well stay in as leave under any kind of deal that could be agreed by (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 10:56:05
- No they don't they have explicitly stated they wish to Stop brexit. (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:53:58
- Well Parliament is never going to revoke A50 (General Chat) - duke of york, Sep 4, 09:54:59
- Yes...but I don’t really have a problem with a confirmatory vote (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:51:08
- But Brexit would need specifying this time (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:55:02
- Absolutely (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:58:03
- I think the motion is based upon if he doesn't receive a new deal (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 10:17:37
- EU has always known parliament would block no deal (General Chat) - duke of york, Sep 4, 10:09:44
- why? He can still go back to the EU with these talks he says were progressing. (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 10:03:19
- Well yes, I agree (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:12:25
- Only issue is if you let him do that (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 10:18:22
- coin flip if it comes down to Remain vs No Deal (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 10:17:24
- How when so little support? (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:19:45
- so little support for what? (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 10:25:36
- The thing about leave with a deal is barely anyone wants it (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:36:06
- because no-one has really set out what vision of Britain they want (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 11:53:30
- The WA was a blind brexit, too much left to be decided at a later date (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 11:09:06
- The thing about leave with a deal is barely anyone wants it (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:36:06
- so little support for what? (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 10:25:36
- How when so little support? (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:19:45
- Not a chance the people vote no deal is there? (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:16:50
- I’m not so sure.... (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:19:48
- While I take your point, I don;t think it would happen. (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 10:30:25
- Yes only the very dimmest believe in this clean break (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:40:45
- I hope you’re right. I’m still feeling a bit bruised from the first one (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:36:24
- With Brexit undefined first time round (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:28:25
- Hopefully - I’m feeling pessimistic about the judgement of the people (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:37:00
- I am surprised there is still a strong support for it (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:43:10
- That was what the original campaign was built on (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:56:09
- Indeed but the lies have now been proven (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:59:33
- No they haven't (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 4, 12:17:56
- Indeed but the lies have now been proven (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:59:33
- That was what the original campaign was built on (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:56:09
- I am surprised there is still a strong support for it (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:43:10
- Hopefully - I’m feeling pessimistic about the judgement of the people (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:37:00
- While I take your point, I don;t think it would happen. (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 10:30:25
- I’m not so sure.... (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:19:48
- GE not his call though however much he wants one (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 10:11:03
- Well yes, I agree (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 10:12:25
- There is a vast majority interested in voting for anything that ends this (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:57:17
- Absolutely (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:58:03
- But Brexit would need specifying this time (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:55:02
- Whigs... come on you Blue, Buff and Oranges (n/m) (General Chat) - Worthing Yellow, Sep 4, 09:19:40
- After a lot of soul searching I'm voting for Kier Starmer (General Chat) - Dunney, Sep 4, 08:59:08
- #libdemsurge (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 08:54:11
- Should be their time. If they can hoover up a load of these rebel MP's and then (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 09:00:18
- Surely Labour will get off the fence (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:06:05
- Still got the Corbyn/communism issue though (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 09:32:58
- Well it's more socialism but still an issue (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:35:19
- Think labour will be decimated, especially if they vote against general election (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:28:44
- Still got the Corbyn/communism issue though (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 09:32:58
- Surely Labour will get off the fence (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:06:05
- Should be their time. If they can hoover up a load of these rebel MP's and then (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 09:00:18
- excellent news i am very fucking happy for you that's so reassuring to know (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:42:39
- General chat category old bean. Don;t read it if not interested. (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:50:09
- Political posts really do bring the worst out of people (General Chat) - strap_on sally, Sep 4, 09:26:53
- *in your opinion* (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:29:23
- The worst out of bad people definitely (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 4, 09:28:27
- but, cricket is real life james (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:51:31
- Praying for rain (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 4, 09:10:52
- If only it was! Things would be much better if real life was like cricket (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:53:07
- indeed, i think this test is all about getting smith out early (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:54:52
- They seem to have selected Overton purely on the basis that he once got him out in Aus (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:59:31
- lyon is a concern hopefully headingly will have got to the aussies though (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 09:01:30
- They seem to have selected Overton purely on the basis that he once got him out in Aus (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:59:31
- Who can bowl a bouncer to smash Boris and Corbyn in the head and get rid of them for a bit (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:54:14
- indeed, i think this test is all about getting smith out early (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:54:52
- Political posts really do bring the worst out of people (General Chat) - strap_on sally, Sep 4, 09:26:53
- You have the ability to ignore this if it is not to your taste. (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 08:49:27
- hush now (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:52:23
- Don't need to ask for it Tombs, it shall be stated regardless (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:36:40
- hush now (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 4, 08:52:23
- Ha ha vmt (n/m) (General Chat) - loz, Sep 4, 08:47:53
- General chat category old bean. Don;t read it if not interested. (General Chat) - Jim, Sep 4, 08:50:09
- I am going to wait to see whats on offer and then vote for the best least worst option (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 08:36:49
- Lib Dem it is then (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:49:27
- I'm not sure i could vote for Jo Swinson as a PM (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:52:54
- Lib Dem it is then (n/m) (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 4, 09:49:27
- You should have listen to Ken Clarke from last night (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 08:35:31
- I don’t normally wade into these debates (General Chat) - Knitted Jesus, Sep 4, 09:21:16
- .. (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:34:07
- ... (General Chat) - Knitted Jesus, Sep 4, 09:42:50
- It came from the horses mouth David Cameron himself (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:30:14
- But people were not listening to Cameron/Govt as this was dismissed as project fear (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 09:42:24
- Ill reclarify (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:50:03
- I agree about the failure to find agreement, that was mainly caused by the then PM (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 10:08:50
- Ill reclarify (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:50:03
- But people were not listening to Cameron/Govt as this was dismissed as project fear (General Chat) - megson, Sep 4, 09:42:24
- .. (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Sep 4, 09:34:07
- I don’t normally wade into these debates (General Chat) - Knitted Jesus, Sep 4, 09:21:16
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