It's not tricky at all

They both have DSDs and almost certainly have 5-ARD: that is, they are biological males with XY chromosomes and internal testes - but their bodies lack the receptor that creates external male genitalia

"Born female" only means "read as female at birth" (because they didn't have external male genitals). "Raised female" only means that the Y chromosome didn't manifest itself until puberty, when the internal testes kicked in and they started producing testosterone at normal levels so they acquired much of the strength, muscle mass, height and power of other men.

That's a tough hand to be dealt, especially in a homophobic and illiberal country. But that doesn't make it fair for them to be allowed to compete with biological
females even in a running race, still less to punch them in the face

The IOC is an absolute mess on this and I think that it is dominated by men and profoundly, institutionally sexist. It banned women from ski jumping until 2014 because Gian Franco Kasper thought it would damage their wombs User Posted Link And in 2015, it allowed any male who reduced testosterone (to a rate still ten times the female average) into female sports without consulting a single woman. Shameful

Posted By: Old Git on August 2nd 2024 at 19:24:14

Message Thread

loving the mixed boxing at this lympix (Other Sports) - Real Man, Aug 2, 17:26:00
- After seeing all that down there v v v v v peeps seem to be missing PK Canary, (n/m) (Other Sports) - Lentil Weaver, Aug 2, 20:05:08
- Cheers JK Rowling (n/m) (Other Sports) - Lentil Weaver, Aug 2, 19:55:59
  - ^^^^ misogynist..... clearly hates real women.... (Other Sports) - usacanary, Aug 2, 20:19:48
    - wut? (n/m) (Other Sports) - Lentil Weaver, Aug 2, 20:52:25
- Really tricky one this. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:01:32
  - Has she been tested though? (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 19:35:52
    - "usual suspects" (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:08:36
      - It doesn’t contradict the IOC statement (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 20:17:09
    - Interesting stuff (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Aug 2, 20:03:16
    - Well, well, well. (n/m) (Other Sports) - norwaay, Aug 2, 20:00:15
  - It's not tricky at all (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:24:14
    - It’s a tough one because it’s being weaponised by transphobes. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:31:34
      - "as a post-graduate biologist, I find it hard to see the advantage she has" (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:42:53
        
        She may well be a biological male (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 19:49:21
        
        There's no IOC test because as I understand the IOC rules (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:53:56
        
        The IBA President claimed there had been a test (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 20:02:08
        
        No need to be rude. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:47:57
        
        The Court of Arbitration in Sport set out the advantages in the Semanya case (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:59:06
        
        Samanya (sic) had a different condition. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 20:09:57
        
        the point is that intersex athletes shouldn't compete against women (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:12:39
        
        I think SCC agrees with that; his point is that there's insufficient evidence that these (n/m) (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:14:46
        
        whooops - that these two boxers are intersex (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:15:48
        
        but they dont want them tested for some reason (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:17:22
        
        Who doesn’t want them tested? (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 20:18:38
        
        Those who wont accept a cheek swab test (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:19:49
        
        I don’t think anyone is denying that she has XY chromosomes. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 20:24:25
        
        Actually I think that's not clear yet (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:29:18
        
        Personally, I agree XY should be the line. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 20:38:01
        
        Thank you, you too (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:46:41
        
        yeah good night. (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:25:23
        
        Not sure what I’ve done to offend you. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 20:29:03
        
        I'm sorry if I have offended you. (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:32:30
        
        I agree with that as a general proposition (n/m) (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:47:56
        
        SD tried engaging you in a grown up discussion. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Aug 2, 20:35:55
        
        doesnt change the facts (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:37:35
        
        Which are clearly not entirely established. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Aug 2, 20:41:04
        
        ha ha (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 20:41:52
        
        You have been courteous SD (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 20:29:55
        
        Cheers OG. (n/m) (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 20:42:31
        
        Agree (Other Sports) - norwaay, Aug 2, 20:36:30
        
        you are not really a biologist, are you? (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:49:55
        
        Sheffield University (2:1), followed by King’s College. (n/m) (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:52:11
      - This is how she presents herself in normal life (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:33:31
        
        I don’t see the relevance. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:43:02
        
        The issue is that she doesnt present as a woman. (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:47:28
        
        What’s been documented? (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 19:50:49
        
        Her banning from competition. (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:52:00
        
        We know she was banned after beating a Russian (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 19:53:53
        
        probably the document it was written on? (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:55:25
        
        Which nobody has seen 👍 (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 20:04:18
        
        She could always clear it up with a cheek swab test, of course (n/m) (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:54:59
        
        I don’t think this is a helpful attitude (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Aug 2, 20:06:08
        
        isnt (n/m) (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:47:43
        
        Weight really not relevant (Other Sports) - Old Git, Aug 2, 19:46:40
        
        See my reply to your other post. (n/m) (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:50:16
  - quite right. But Imane shouldn't be boxing females. (Other Sports) - shoddy, Aug 2, 19:05:04
    - As I say, really tricky. (Other Sports) - Snakepit Divorcee, Aug 2, 19:07:46
- But it says it on their passports for goodness sake! I mean, what more proof is needed?! (n/m) (Other Sports) - paulg, Aug 2, 17:30:39
  - perhaps we need a third section (Other Sports) - ghostof barry butler, Aug 2, 18:07:36
    - What are your thoughts on the Mixed Relays real man? (n/m) (Other Sports) - Huge Small, Aug 2, 18:26:40
      - Loving anything showing birds men is physically superior m8 (Other Sports) - Real Man, Aug 2, 18:29:54
        
        I see (n/m) (Other Sports) - Huge Small, Aug 2, 19:30:44
        
        lolf (n/m) (Other Sports) - Lentil Weaver, Aug 2, 20:02:47

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