Interesting times
Full disclosure: I voted Remain. However, the majority in the referendum was for Leave.
Yes, the Leave campaign lied so egregiously you could argue people were misled; but the Remain campaign (which was so awful it beggars belief - really, really basic stuff Just Done Wrong) also lied. They were two dreadful campaigns all round.
The A50 process is stupid - I think intentionally. On triggering it you immediately impose a timetable which puts you at a severe disadvantage, because you're in a ridiculous negotiating position.
All these calls for Parliament to agree the terms of negotiation are also stupid. Anyone who's done any kind of commercial or political negotiation will see that. If the other side knows your opening position, red lines and so on before you even start you are bound to emerge with a poor deal. It's like playing poker with all the other players knowing what's in your hand, but you don't know what's in theirs.
If Brexit is killed by administrative sclerosis, or by Parliament - or the Lords - voting not to do it, the well-documented mistrust and anger with the political class will go through the roof. Extremists on the right and left will both gain significant political support.
This is not a happy scenario.
I didn't want a Brexit, but the people voted for one, and if one isn't delivered there will be Issues.
If I were advising May I'd tell her to call an election now. The inbuilt advantage Labour enjoys hasn't yet been removed by the boundary people, but arguably Labour is speaking only to its core vote at the minute. All candidates in an election would have to be very clear about their position on Brexit. Interestingly, May's own constituency (in which I live) voted Remain, so I don't know what position she herself would then adopt - that could be so troublesome for her she rules out an election on that ground alone. It's not a safe Tory seat, the Liberals have historically been close challengers and of course they would campaign for In.
It is, I think, defensible for a newly elected Parliament with a clear mandate not to go forward with Brexit to override the referendum. It's certainly not for the current Parliament to do so, and certainly not for the Lords to do so either. Even in that case, UKIP would scream bloody murder and with some justification.
What a f**king mess.
Posted By: Old Man on November 3rd 2016 at 13:39:02
Message Thread
- Interesting times (General Chat) - Old Man, Nov 3, 13:39:02
- There's an easy solution to this (General Chat) - CWC, Nov 3, 20:30:46
- I'm standing up for the A50 (General Chat) - Claygate_Canary, Nov 3, 17:01:05
- There is no speed cameras on it (n/m) (General Chat) - colincanary, Nov 3, 17:30:04
- According to Poland......... (General Chat) - Larry Hagman, Nov 3, 14:56:02
- Its clear that GB will end up with......... (General Chat) - usacanary, Nov 3, 14:25:40
- since when did the united state of yank join the EU? (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:28:35
- Thank you Mr Dailyz Mailz (General Chat) - usacanary, Nov 3, 16:33:28
- since when did the united state of yank join the EU? (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:28:35
- we are taking the machete of freedom to the brambles of EU regulation (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:25:27
- Genuine lol (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Nov 3, 14:57:47
- appalling technique there (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 14:28:27
- a masterclass by the big man (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:29:21
- If the grew a beard, I think Boris could make a passable Captain Birdseye. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:31:29
- a pair of glasses and he's Benny Hill (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Nov 3, 14:49:21
- spot the difference (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 14:54:37
- one's a clown that chases anything in a short skirt (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Nov 3, 15:40:35
- spot the difference (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 14:54:37
- not a giant leap from Birdseye to Father Christmas either (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:34:00
- Valid point. Plethora of work out there for him. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:35:17
- Plethora, now i like my old etymology dubbs so it's quite apt that you used that (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:59:09
- Dearth is the opposite I think. Words of the day. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 15:02:02
- indeed, learnt the other day what 'beyond the pale' means (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 15:15:09
- Wouldn't that be a pail anyway? (n/m) (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 16:39:32
- indeed, learnt the other day what 'beyond the pale' means (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 15:15:09
- Dearth is the opposite I think. Words of the day. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 15:02:02
- Panto, he'd make a great ugly sister that would keep him busy over winter as well (n/m) (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:40:17
- Probably do his reputation some good. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:41:04
- celeb BIG brother, get me out of the jungle, strictly, blankety blank, cake off (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:45:19
- I'm in the EU, get me out of here. That would be quite topical. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:56:19
- celeb BIG brother, get me out of the jungle, strictly, blankety blank, cake off (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:45:19
- Probably do his reputation some good. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:41:04
- Plethora, now i like my old etymology dubbs so it's quite apt that you used that (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:59:09
- Valid point. Plethora of work out there for him. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:35:17
- If the? If he. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:31:51
- a pair of glasses and he's Benny Hill (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Nov 3, 14:49:21
- If the grew a beard, I think Boris could make a passable Captain Birdseye. (n/m) (General Chat) - DrDublin, Nov 3, 14:31:29
- a masterclass by the big man (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:29:21
- All i know is that (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Nov 3, 14:23:03
- I didn't think the Remain camp said was that bad (General Chat) - Old Git, Nov 3, 14:15:07
- As a political campaign it was appallingly badly run (General Chat) - Old Man, Nov 3, 14:53:47
- "campaign" not "camp said" (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Nov 3, 14:15:31
- As i have said below i think the only way Article 50 will get served (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 14:07:10
- That's all quite reasonable, in theory. (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 14:14:19
- The problem with the European Parliament is that nobody (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 14:30:12
- "The problem with the European Parliament is that nobody in the UK thought it had..." (General Chat) - megson, Nov 3, 16:41:27
- Yes I accept that although in fairness I don't think (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 17:51:04
- That's because the media had/has an agenda (n/m) (General Chat) - CWC, Nov 3, 19:54:43
- Yes I accept that although in fairness I don't think (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 17:51:04
- Ha Ha (General Chat) - mr carra, Nov 3, 15:51:20
- Where did I say any of that? Make up what you want if it continues to help you (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 16:23:25
- Maybe they should have listened - I always voted. (n/m) (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 15:40:22
- I think we're the tail that's doing the wagging. (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 15:39:46
- crikey (General Chat) - Tombs, Nov 3, 14:43:10
- "The problem with the European Parliament is that nobody in the UK thought it had..." (General Chat) - megson, Nov 3, 16:41:27
- The problem with the European Parliament is that nobody (General Chat) - Jim, Nov 3, 14:30:12
- That's all quite reasonable, in theory. (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 14:14:19
- this is something that both sides should've investigated thoroughly before the vote even (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 13:58:38
- Cameron's vote winning policy for 2015 which has cost us a hell of a lot. (n/m) (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 14:15:44
- indeed, no wonder he resigned asap (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 14:24:46
- yes let's call another referendum tlll we get our remain way! (General Chat) - Men without hats, Nov 3, 17:21:20
- that's not what I'm saying at all (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 18:29:38
- yes let's call another referendum tlll we get our remain way! (General Chat) - Men without hats, Nov 3, 17:21:20
- indeed, no wonder he resigned asap (General Chat) - Worzel Scrimmage, Nov 3, 14:24:46
- Cameron's vote winning policy for 2015 which has cost us a hell of a lot. (n/m) (General Chat) - APB, Nov 3, 14:15:44
- another solution: (General Chat) - Dave in Switzerland, Nov 3, 13:47:17
- that would work. (n/m) (General Chat) - Men without hats, Nov 3, 17:22:20
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