England committed 33 fouls in that match. Argentina committed 19.

And a foul back then was not what a foul is now, make no mistake. Rattin, indeed, was sent off for... complaining to the ref about England's violent play.

Rattin was dismissed after 35 minutes. So despite us being at home, despite playing v 10 men for 55 minutes, the foul count was almost 2:1... against Argentina.

Yet an entirely different narrative about that match was just plain made up instead. And it's stuck ever since. An awful lot of stereotypes about Argentinian football emanate from it: stereotypes which are still used now.

Posted By: thebigfeller on March 12th 2015 at 09:55:38

Message Thread

Graeme Souness shows the world the 'British way' (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 03:09:23
- Gamesmanship was invented by Leeds in the 70's. (n/m) (Other Football) - col canary, Mar 12, 08:51:16
- Disagree. Different game now and in those days people only stayed down when hurt (n/m) (Other Football) - Hulk Rules, Mar 12, 08:13:31
  - Which is all i think (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:24:04
    - It does when, without evidence, he darkly blames this change from the good old days (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:26:03
      - So... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:33:29
        
        Isn't the reasoning a bit racist? (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 08:38:48
        
        Nope..... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:48:43
        
        He wasn't anywhere near as careful in his words as you just were. (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 08:59:15
        
        That's right. Not only that, but the only reason we're cheating now is (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:40:11
        
        do you disagree with him when he says that (Other Football) - Mecagoenti, Mar 12, 08:43:54
        
        I think the nature of cheating or gamesmanship has probably changed. (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 08:55:00
        
        yeah, I thought it was a bit of a clumsy and generalised phrase that he used (Other Football) - Mecagoenti, Mar 12, 09:05:18
        
        And to take just one example from the distant past (and you're dead right about cameras) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 09:08:54
        
        Were you there? (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 09:38:07
        
        England committed 33 fouls in that match. Argentina committed 19. (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 09:55:38
        
        Then he sulked and sat on the Queen's red carpet. (Other Football) - Garry Brooke, Mar 12, 10:20:30
        
        So, the foul count is your argument. Fouls. (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 10:18:34
        
        Joined the dots. (n/m) (Other Football) - Arizona Bay, Mar 12, 09:48:02
        
        Clearly. (n/m) (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 09:50:49
        
        I do disagree, yes. English players have been diving for decades (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:49:34
        
        I agree with you regarding diving and gamesmanship (Other Football) - Mecagoenti, Mar 12, 09:10:32
        
        The past is a different country... (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 09:13:30
        
        [or foreign country, even] (n/m) (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 09:15:06
        
        Did Souness make Serie A more dirty with his 'British ways'? (n/m) (Other Football) - Garry Brooke, Mar 12, 09:19:56
        
        Yes. No. Maybe. I don't know, I wasn't paying attention. (n/m) (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 09:23:30
        
        I was being disingenuous. (Other Football) - Garry Brooke, Mar 12, 09:26:48
        
        I gathered that. (n/m) (Other Football) - APB, Mar 12, 09:28:48
        
        I thought you probably had. (Other Football) - Garry Brooke, Mar 12, 09:30:01
        
        It's just the extremes I'm talking about here, that's all. The extent of the hyperbole and (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 09:13:16
- Souness is a hypocrite because he criticises cheating and gamesmanship (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 07:42:43
  - In the very first clip I link to, he commits a psychotic challenge (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 07:56:25
    - so really, your issue is with pundits in general (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 07:59:52
      - If they have a colourful past, they're welcome to be pundits. But not hypocrites. (n/m) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:01:42
        
        So there are some things they can say (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 08:05:28
        
        You may have noticed Henry spectacularly failing to get involved in a debate about (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:09:04
        
        Because he's a spectacularly dull pundit. (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 08:10:16
        
        Because he's not a hypocrite. (n/m) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:10:52
        
        Right. lol. (n/m) (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 08:11:46
        
        Think you're missing a rather basic point (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:04:13
        
        Souness bemoaned the damage done to "Liverpool's good name" when Suarez bit Ivanovic (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:07:52
        
        Of course..... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:10:01
        
        Not in his hyperbole he didn't. And by the way, on namby pamby diving (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:13:38
        
        So the disagreement here is actually.... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:30:04
        
        Yes it is, because of who he blamed. (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:35:23
        
        Ffs! (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:42:34
        
        It's VERY racist. And 'informed opinions' don't make it any less so (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:44:52
        
        You're determined to label souness a racist arent you. (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:52:41
        
        All credit to him for what he did at Rangers. Was very brave and incredibly overdue (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:59:38
        
        so... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 09:11:58
        
        Ron Atkinson did more for black players breaking through in English football than almost (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 09:15:56
        
        the difference is.... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 09:31:24
        
        He mentioned a specific race of people man! "Latins". (n/m) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 09:33:02
        
        Latin Americans are not a 'race', specific or otherwise (n/m) (Other Football) - CWC, Mar 12, 11:18:33
        
        crikey.... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 10:12:01
- Bit harsh (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 07:32:22
  - less cheating and complaining? righto. (Other Football) - megson, Mar 12, 07:42:30
    - Errrm, i'm not disagreeing.... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:00:48
    - Everything is cheating Meggers (Other Football) - norway, Mar 12, 07:57:09
      - I agree (this can't be right...) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:01:12
        
        Agree with your summary there (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:06:06
        
        Yes. Why? How can 1 form of grotesque cheating get the thumbs up, another the thumbs down? (n/m) (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:10:21
        
        Because..... (Other Football) - Cheltenham_Canary, Mar 12, 08:25:37
        
        ... (Other Football) - thebigfeller, Mar 12, 08:27:17
- Clearly this post I referring to at least one other - can someone link me up please (n/m) (Other Football) - Dandy Highburyman, Mar 12, 07:13:12
  - Thanks all (n/m) (Other Football) - Dandy Highburyman, Mar 12, 13:32:26
- ^^^^vmt^^^^ (n/m) (Other Football) - colincanary, Mar 12, 06:18:35

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